This is excellent, Jacob. "Those hostile to truth must receive it in a new way" is a quite intriguing way to think about the appeal of Integralism, Christian Nationalism, and so forth. Moral Majority religion, whether loved or hated, has passed. This might be the greatest legacy of the negative world.
Eastern Christianity has survived 2000 years through unbelievable horrors with its adherents following Christ’s true teachings. Paul has aligned himself with a church that continues to follow the teachings of Christ regardless of what civilization is concerned with. All we have power over is our ability to repent and turn our lives away from sin. Focus on that and watch how the world changes.
"The solution to the decay and collapse of the West is humility; to defend the West, all we must do is repent:" This sentence for me indicates that you haven't fully grasped Kingsnorth's position; he isn't aiming at defending the West. He's aiming at Christlikeness, and if that happens to lead to cultural (which for him is very different to civilizational) renewal, that's a happy bonus.
Some good thoughts here! It is unfortunate to call the MAGA regime coming to power, “a triumph of Christian values, however, when the administration and the man himself are sullied with sexual abuse, fraud, deceit, and general vulgarity of all shapes and sizes. Ruling by cultivating fear of the “other” (who are also our neighbors), slandering one’s rivals, and dodging accountability has never been and will never be “Christian.” In fact, representatives like these do immeasurable damage to the name of Christ the world over by claiming him while reveling in sin.
Additionally, the fundamental flaw of the pursuit of a “Christian nation” is the assumption that there is only one set of political and social beliefs that are “Christian.” Since those gilded days when Christianity gained worldly power, Christians have disagreed on what to do with it. The church is multi-faceted and diverse. Who ultimately gets to make policy decisions in a “Christian nation” when the Christians themselves disagree? You may think that I, like Russell Moore and David French, have simply sold out to the Left, and that’s alright! I’ll choose to give to Trump what is Trump’s and to God what is God’s.
Completely unconvincing MAGA twaddle. The key paragraph is this one: “By implication then, Christians are compelled by their conscience to vote for policies and candidates that represent Christian values and interests. For that reason alone, the absolute triumph of Donald Trump and the MAGA wing of the Republican party in the 2024 elections against the abortion-promoting, sodomy-affirming, genital-mutilating Kamala Harris represents a triumph of Christian values.” That shows what you think Christian values are and your obsessions. Sad.
As a child, when mom shoved cough syrup down my throat it was bitter and I didn’t like it but it did, in fact, make me better. Unfortunately, that doesn’t work for Christianity and civilization. Long live peace and repentance. Jesus’ way was the way of weakness (now, don’t read weakness and think “limp-wristed acceptance”). Jesus’ way was the way of self-sacrifice (not enforced integralism). That’s a different Jesus you’re talking about. He let the state kill him. Long live peace and repentance and the common good.
This all sounds very Islamic, which isn't surprising because as Spengler himself pointed as Islam and Protestant Puritanism are the same late period iconoclastic movements within their respective cultures.
The opposition of Church and State is absolutely integral to the west, to stray away from it is to drift into different cultural mores.
No, moral has nothing to do with it. They are just the same late stage of development within the religious history of their respective cultures; cold, urban, intellectual, unforgiving, warlike and iconoclastic.
The Arabic aspect of Islam throws many historians off the scent that it was simply the final and decisive rejection by the eastern and southern (namely Persian and Egyptian) Christian churches of the Greek church of orthodoxy. It's rise is already heralded in the councils of Nicea, Ephesus, Chalcedon.
"While we can expect nothing more from a former Wiccan-turned-Romanian-Orthodox. . . ." Your thesis was worth considering until you turned to a silly swipe.
I believe you have captured something here, where the synthesis of the ideas of nation as a common heritage and nation as common blood will merge together as liberal ideals are being cast aside as completely anti-civilizational. The idea of Christendom should carry over to that without issue if heritage and morality of our cultures is being treated seriously, although I have my reservations about Trump and MAGA - it appears too shallow and too reactionary to actually be a core of a greater struggle for Americans. It might be a start, but it cannot be the thing they actually aspire it to be, since the movement lacks any ideological or spiritual thrust, beyond the usual platitudes.
Yes!!!! I love Brother Kingsnorth, but someone needs to step up and assert the existence and validity of the process whereby a Christian community grows into a Christian nation. Example number one isn't even from Europe. It's Abyssinia (now called Ethiopia).
I will read your substack, but wanted to assert the above before I begin. Thanks!
This is excellent, Jacob. "Those hostile to truth must receive it in a new way" is a quite intriguing way to think about the appeal of Integralism, Christian Nationalism, and so forth. Moral Majority religion, whether loved or hated, has passed. This might be the greatest legacy of the negative world.
Eastern Christianity has survived 2000 years through unbelievable horrors with its adherents following Christ’s true teachings. Paul has aligned himself with a church that continues to follow the teachings of Christ regardless of what civilization is concerned with. All we have power over is our ability to repent and turn our lives away from sin. Focus on that and watch how the world changes.
"The solution to the decay and collapse of the West is humility; to defend the West, all we must do is repent:" This sentence for me indicates that you haven't fully grasped Kingsnorth's position; he isn't aiming at defending the West. He's aiming at Christlikeness, and if that happens to lead to cultural (which for him is very different to civilizational) renewal, that's a happy bonus.
Some good thoughts here! It is unfortunate to call the MAGA regime coming to power, “a triumph of Christian values, however, when the administration and the man himself are sullied with sexual abuse, fraud, deceit, and general vulgarity of all shapes and sizes. Ruling by cultivating fear of the “other” (who are also our neighbors), slandering one’s rivals, and dodging accountability has never been and will never be “Christian.” In fact, representatives like these do immeasurable damage to the name of Christ the world over by claiming him while reveling in sin.
Additionally, the fundamental flaw of the pursuit of a “Christian nation” is the assumption that there is only one set of political and social beliefs that are “Christian.” Since those gilded days when Christianity gained worldly power, Christians have disagreed on what to do with it. The church is multi-faceted and diverse. Who ultimately gets to make policy decisions in a “Christian nation” when the Christians themselves disagree? You may think that I, like Russell Moore and David French, have simply sold out to the Left, and that’s alright! I’ll choose to give to Trump what is Trump’s and to God what is God’s.
Enjoy your writing, keep it up!
Completely unconvincing MAGA twaddle. The key paragraph is this one: “By implication then, Christians are compelled by their conscience to vote for policies and candidates that represent Christian values and interests. For that reason alone, the absolute triumph of Donald Trump and the MAGA wing of the Republican party in the 2024 elections against the abortion-promoting, sodomy-affirming, genital-mutilating Kamala Harris represents a triumph of Christian values.” That shows what you think Christian values are and your obsessions. Sad.
As a child, when mom shoved cough syrup down my throat it was bitter and I didn’t like it but it did, in fact, make me better. Unfortunately, that doesn’t work for Christianity and civilization. Long live peace and repentance. Jesus’ way was the way of weakness (now, don’t read weakness and think “limp-wristed acceptance”). Jesus’ way was the way of self-sacrifice (not enforced integralism). That’s a different Jesus you’re talking about. He let the state kill him. Long live peace and repentance and the common good.
This all sounds very Islamic, which isn't surprising because as Spengler himself pointed as Islam and Protestant Puritanism are the same late period iconoclastic movements within their respective cultures.
The opposition of Church and State is absolutely integral to the west, to stray away from it is to drift into different cultural mores.
So Islam and Protestant Puritanism are morally equivalent, and their adherents around the world practice the same behaviors? Just clarifying.
No, moral has nothing to do with it. They are just the same late stage of development within the religious history of their respective cultures; cold, urban, intellectual, unforgiving, warlike and iconoclastic.
The Arabic aspect of Islam throws many historians off the scent that it was simply the final and decisive rejection by the eastern and southern (namely Persian and Egyptian) Christian churches of the Greek church of orthodoxy. It's rise is already heralded in the councils of Nicea, Ephesus, Chalcedon.
"While we can expect nothing more from a former Wiccan-turned-Romanian-Orthodox. . . ." Your thesis was worth considering until you turned to a silly swipe.
Except that Kingsnorth is still very adamant about defending certain aspects of Gaia worship. It was a swipe, but not an unfounded one.
I am a little tired of these Orthodox bros forswearing politics. Love 'em, but...
I believe you have captured something here, where the synthesis of the ideas of nation as a common heritage and nation as common blood will merge together as liberal ideals are being cast aside as completely anti-civilizational. The idea of Christendom should carry over to that without issue if heritage and morality of our cultures is being treated seriously, although I have my reservations about Trump and MAGA - it appears too shallow and too reactionary to actually be a core of a greater struggle for Americans. It might be a start, but it cannot be the thing they actually aspire it to be, since the movement lacks any ideological or spiritual thrust, beyond the usual platitudes.
Brilliant.
Yes!!!! I love Brother Kingsnorth, but someone needs to step up and assert the existence and validity of the process whereby a Christian community grows into a Christian nation. Example number one isn't even from Europe. It's Abyssinia (now called Ethiopia).
I will read your substack, but wanted to assert the above before I begin. Thanks!
Really interesting arguments. Going to give it a think and re read.
Quite good!
Who exactly should be in charge of the “Christian nation”?
Thank you